Kendall questions Starr, Part II

KENDALL: Did Professor Dash give you any advice as to what should be on background or what on the record?
STARR: We discussed with Sam a variety of issues. I would have to search my recollection with respect to any specific observations that Sam gave us with respect to this.

KENDALL: You yourself executed an affidavit in the leaks of the investigation, did you not?
STARR: David, this matter is in litigation. And Mr. Chairman, as a matter of fairness, I have to be careful about what I say because he may tell me that it's not under -- it's just not right to be in litigation under seal before the district court and to be cross-examined by the president's attorney with respect to that matter which seems to have no germaneness whatever (off--microphone).
KENDALL: Mr. Starr, I was going to ask you about an affidavit, a sworn declaration which you yourself executed which is not under seal in -- in the leaks proceeding.
But I will move on if this -- if this -- if this is not something that you want to respond to?
STARR: Well, David, I just think if you're talking about the leaks litigation, that's the point. It is in litigation.
Why don't we allow that litigation to go forward instead of individuals, members of Congress who talk about fairness, jumping to the conclusion that there's been a violation when there has been no adjudication of anything beyond the existence under the law of this circuit of a prima facie case.

KENDALL: You mentioned the experience of Miss Lewinsky at the Ritz-Carlton on Friday, Jan. 16, 1998.
KENDALL: One of the reasons your agents held Ms. Lewinsky was that they....
STARR: I have to interrupt. That premise is false.
KENDALL: I was not meaning to be offensive.
STARR: That is false and you know it to be false.
KENDALL: I'll rephrase the question.
STARR: She was not held.
KENDALL: One of the purposes was to get Ms. Lewinsky to wear a recording device and surreptitiously record Mr. Jordan or the president. Was it not?
STARR: It was not. And I know that there is testimony and that this was referred to, but let me explain. She was asked and given the opportunity, which she turned down, to be a cooperating witness. And we explained to her -- we did not invent this. This is all traditional prosecutorial activity and techniques. And we said one of the things that a cooperating witness can do is to assist us in consensual monitoring.
KENDALL: You may have read the Time magazine essay -- excuse me -- I'm sorry, by Messrs. Ginsburg and Speights which they state the following: "The government didn't just want our client to tell her story. They wanted her wired. They wanted her to record telephone calls with the president of the United States, Vernon Jordan and others at their will." You're familiar with Mr. Ginsburg's charge?
STARR: Mr. Ginsburg is wrong. And he must know that he is wrong. He was wrong then, and it is a calumny to repeat that now. Mr. Ginsburg was not known for his consistency of articulating positions.
Nor was -- nor was he known for his consistency in dealing with facts. I would say that he was rather fast and loose with the facts. And if you are going to rely in this proceeding on a Time magazine essay by Bill Ginsburg, then I think the standards are not quite as lofty as I thought they would be this evening.
KENDALL: Now, you categorically denied wanting to have Ms. Lewinsky wear a wire or secretly tape record the president or Mr. Jordan when the charge was made in the Time article, did you not? You categorically denied that.
STARR: Are you saying at the time of this Time article?
KENDALL: At the time of that Time article, you denied Mr. Ginsburg's charge, did you not?
STARR: I believe that we did, but I am just not recalling specifically...
KENDALL: You certainly denied it ... You say, this is false, this office never asked Ms. Lewinsky to agree to wire herself for a conversation with Mr. Jordan or the president. You cite no source at all, nor could you, as we had no such plans. Have I read correctly your letter?
STARR: Yes, you have.
KENDALL: All right now. When you wrote the letter, did you review... You were not present at the Ritz Carlton were you?
STARR: No, I was not.
KENDALL: It was in the grand jury that the events of Friday, January the 16th, were presented through the testimony of Ms. Lewinsky, was it not? Was that her second appearance?
STARR: Yes, I believe that's right.
KENDALL: The grand jurors -- you're prosecutors had no more questions, and the grand jurors themselves began to inquire about the events that day. One of them said at page 1143, "We want to know about that day, we really want to know about that day." And this illicited then, from Ms. Lewinsky, who was under oath, a tearful description of what had happened to her. She asked Mr. Emmick to leave the room, did she not?
STARR: That's my recollection of the transcript, yes.
KENDALL: And, in fact, she said that she was told on Friday, Jan. 16 by your agents that she'd have to place calls or wear a wire to see -- to call Betty, and Mr. Jordan, and possibly the president. "Question: And did you tell them you didn't want to do that? Yes." Was that Ms. Lewinsky's testimony?
STARR: Yes, that is her testimony.
KENDALL: I think the point was made earlier, but the affidavit that Ms. Lewinsky filed had not been mailed by her attorney until the end of the day Friday, January the 16th, had it?
STARR: I believe that's right in terms of the timing, that --but I would have to reconstruct that in terms of the actual timing of the mailing. I'm sorry, I would have to double-check that.
KENDALL: Mr. Starr, you've repeatedly said that the attorney general asked you to take on this matter -- the Lewinsky...
STARR: Well, that's your characterization. I have said that we collaborated with the Justice Department, and the attorney general came to her decision. We brought it to her attention. We did say that we thought that the steps we'd taken had been within our jurisdiction, but we were concerned about whether any additional step could be taken properly within our jurisdiction, and that's how the discussions began.
KENDALL: In fact, you requested that the matter be referred to you, did you not?
STARR: At some point during the discussion, we -- in our own deliberations, we came to the view that we felt that, because of the involvement -- and I'll be very specific here -- of Vernon Jordan, that this was related to our existing jurisdiction. The attorney general disagreed with that. But that was our view.
Here was Linda Tripp, who was a witness in the travel office matter, and the Vincent Foster documents matter, and the Vincent Foster death matter, and she had come to us with information. And so we felt very comfortable -- and she said, "I'm being asked to commit crimes. I'm being asked to commit perjury." We felt comfortable that we were within our jurisdiction at that juncture, but we did feel there was a jurisdictional issue from that point forward which we worked on collaboratively with the Justice Department.
But we did, in fact, send a letter indicating that we felt that this was related to our jurisdiction, but I hasten to note that the attorney general disagreed with that and said, "No, it's not related to your existing jurisdiction, but we think your office should investigate it. We can't because the president is implicated."
KENDALL: In her transmission to the special division, the attorney general stated, "Independent Counsel Starr has requested that this matter be referred to him." Is that not the case?
STARR: I am certainly going to accede to your representation. And it certainly is true, as I just indicated, that we did, in fact, send a written submission indicating that we felt that this was related to our jurisdiction. The attorney general felt we should have jurisdiction, but disagreed that under the statute it should be an expansion of our existing jurisdiction.
KENDALL: Mr. Starr, when did you first learn -- you yourself --that there might be an audiotape with a conversation involving the president and a young woman?
STARR: The young woman -- Monica?
KENDALL: A young woman.
STARR: Oh, I think we've had questions about that, and I have been asked that, and I'm searching my recollection, but let me say this: if you're talking about Monica Lewinsky -- and I don't know that you are; you didn't use her name -- but the first I knew, to the best of my knowledge and recollection, of Monica Lewinsky was in January of 1998.
STARR: Now I had questions, and they seem to me to suggest that there is some information with respect to, information that may have come to me in November of 1997, with respect to tapes. And it was all very vague and shrouded in mystery. And I said, I will be happy to respond if I get some additional information. With respect to Monica Lewinsky, which I assume is what we're here to talk about, I did not know anything about Monica Lewinsky to the best of my recollection. I don't think I ever had occasion to meet her otherwise hear about her until January of 1998.
KENDALL: Were you aware of how Ms. Tripp came to communicate with your office in January of 1998?
STARR: I was told, I'll be very specific, and I can be very brief. I was at an American Bar Association Journal board of editors meeting when the initial contact was made with one of the associate independent counsels. I do not believe in that -- and that was on January 8th, and I do not believe in that contact -- Linda Tripp's name was mentioned. That information was brought back to Washington. The information was conveyed to a deputy independent counsel who said, information comes in the front door. And I'm not sure at that time that we knew who this person was. We were then called on Jan. 12 by Linda Tripp -- that was a telephone call -- and I was made aware of the telephone call promptly thereafter. And that's when it was brought to my attention that there was information that we would proceed to act on.KENDALL: Were you aware that your partner, Richard Porter, had played a role in steering Ms. Tripp to your office?
STARR: I know Richard. I am not aware of what his role was. I have since read about what his role was. But I did not in any way have any involvement whatsoever, or participation in any way with whatever he did. And I've not conducted an investigation. There may be facts of which I am unaware that I should be aware in terms of before I formulated a complete response.
KENDALL: In that, you've made the point that you kept your law practice as you were legally entitled to do. You made, I think over a million dollars each year, for the last four from that law practice, again as you were legally entitled to do. But in exchange for allowing private counsel to serve part-timers 1/8 as 3/8 independent counsel, the Ethics in Government Act enforced a very strict conflict of interest rule, did it not?
STARR: Yes, it's very specific. Yes.
KENDALL: And that says that any independent counsel cannot have any person associated with a firm, not just a partner, represent in any matter, any person involved in any investigation or prosecution under this chapter. Is that correct?
STARR: I believe that's right, I would have to re-read it, but I'm going to simply accept your representation. But I think that is correct.
KENDALL: All right. "Goldberg called around to friends she has, including one in Chicago who works at the same firm Ken Starr does. This person recommended Goldberg to call Jackie Bennett at the OIC. Goldberg advised that the OIC knew who this person is, and that this person is very nervous at this time." Did you ever have any reports from any source that some person at your law firm had expressed nervousness about this contact with Linda Tripp?
STARR: You're talking about at any time?
KENDALL: Any time.
STARR: Well, you've just brought this to my attention. But I am -- I do not -- no, I don't have a recollection of something being brought -- you're talking to my attention? No.
KENDALL: Did you cause any check to be made at any time, before you sought jurisdiction in the Lewinsky matter, as to whether any person in your law firm had any kind of an association with the Paula Jones' case?
STARR: No, I did not.

This article was published on Friday, November 20, 1998

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