Neysa Erbland Excerpts
Excerpts from grand jury testimony of Lewinsky friend Neysa Erbland released Friday by the House Judiciary Committee, part of the evidence collected by independent counsel Kenneth Starr. Ms. Erbland knew Ms. Lewinsky from high school and talked with her while she was working in Washington:
... Q: Did she ever discuss the President with you during either the period of time that she was working as an intern or as a permanent employee? ...
A: ... She told me that they were having an affair. ... I don't know how the topic started, but she had started to say, you know, that he was so cute and that, you know, and I would say, ``Ooh.'' You know, ``Really?'' And she said, ``No. You know, well, when you see him in person, it's different. He's much better looking in person that he is when you see him on TV.''
And, you know, and I would say, ``Oh, my God. Could you imagine if you know, you ended up having an affair with the President?'' And she said, ``Yes, that would be wild and crazy.'' And I said, ``Well, you have to tell me.'' She said, ``No. Well I wouldn't be able to tell you. That would be just too much of a big deal. I couldn't tell anybody if that ever happened.''
And it went back and forth like that for a few minutes and finally, she said, ``Okay. It's happened.''
Q: And what did she tell you about what had happened?
A: She said that it started that they had been kind of making eyes at each other and kind of just flirty a little bit, you know, and she would see him in the halls or something like that. And one afternoon, I guess, she was dropping something off or something like that and he must have said something to her, you know, that she looked good in her suit or something to that effect, and she — she lifter up her skirt and showed him her underwear. And I guess it started from there. ...
Q: ... Can you tell the grand jury on an emotional level what Monica's relationship was like with the President during the time that she worked in the White House? And by that I mean, you know, just the nature of her feelings. Was it a good, happy relationship? Unhappy?
A: I think at that time, it was happy, it was good. She, I think, was mostly satisfied physically with what was going on, although she wanted to actually have intercourse with him, but she had said that he felt that there were repercussions to that that, I guess, weren't as serious as doing things other than intercourse.
She talked about wanting to be able to see him more, wishing they could see each other freely. You know, she was crazy about him. ...
Q: Do you know if before she left the White House she had discussed her leaving with the President?
A: Yes. ... She told me that he was going to help her get a job back in the White House. ... As soon as possible, you know, he would try and get her a job back in there without anyone — not soon enough so that people would raise their eyebrows. ...
Q: ... Did they talk on the phone? ... What did she tell you?
A: They were like phone sex conversations. They would, you know, talk about what they wanted to do to each other sexually. ... They were late at night, four, three, two in the morning.
Q: Did she tell you that she knew where he was when he made those calls?
A: I think she had said he was in his bedroom. ...
Q: ... Was there any other physical contact that you haven't already mentioned to us that she told you about?
A: Well, I don't know if I did mention what he did to her. He did manual stimulation of her and there was one time that she did tell me of — he took a cigar from his desk and — and inserted inside of her in a sexual way. ...
Q: ... Did Monica have a nickname for the President?
A: ... She called him ``the big creep.''
Q: ... Did Monica ever tell you about other aspects of her relationship with the President? ...
A: ... They didn't really do other things because when they saw each other, it was just, you know, there in the White House. So they didn't go out or anything. But they talked about — I mean, they talked about his relationship with his wife and they talked about — you know, she loves him. ... Monica loves the President.
Q: ... Did she tell you that?
A: She told me what ... She — you know, would convey that to him. I don't know if she actually told him that she loved him, and that he had insinuated to her that he didn't know what was going to happen four years from then. ...
Q: ... You were mentioning that she told you that the President had arranged a job interview for her with Bill Richardson. Do you recall testifying to that? ... Did she ever tell you why the President was arranging this interview?
A: Because he had promised to help her out. ... He had promised her that he would help her get a job back in the White House and when that didn't work out or he wasn't able to work that out, that, you know, the next best thing. ...
This article was published on Saturday, October 3, 1998
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